Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Besides, you have a greaseisel. But R22 is almost equally damaging. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. R134a. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? ambulance tailgate conversion Moreso, it had been banned. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Generally this works well for the whole system. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. . By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . 5. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. Flushed, vacuumed etc. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. Are you sure you have an R4? don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. Thanks for the input. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. I think the way to go here is1. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Compressor. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. Bookmarks: Digg; del . Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. . It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. The difference really shows up on the high side. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. Big . Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. 5. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. I mean, really a lot. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. Related products. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. It won't be optimal, though. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. CR4P). These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. In short, NO! . The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. 10,000BTU conduction heating? R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? I'll put the relay on for that. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. Temp switch works the aux fan. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . For R12, its mineral oil. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? Also called the orifice tube. R134a requires a different oil. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. System has been working fine for a year. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. Can I use the one for the R-12? A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Yep, definately not a meat locker. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. That switch should close @ 52c. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. ESP when a compressor has frozen. Very interesting! The exact amount will vary with each car. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. and feeds it through an expansion valve. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." It won't be optimal, though. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Very nice! A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. What is a T/C?4. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. $21 . Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. What is a good differential? R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . . We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. However, R134a is better than R12. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. Any advice appreciated. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. Electric fans do wear out. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! #13. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. What is needed? In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. 5. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. Its highest value is 1. The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. 2) Frost on the Vents. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. 1) Warm Air From Vents. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. hardly noticable. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. 5) A/C System Failure. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. Your old hoses of course will not fit. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. They plug all the time. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. Safe but sorry! The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Can I use the one for the R-12? The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. of refrigerant insulation tape. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. But I don't want to waste your time. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Crap! That is a good thing.

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