Isn't Raven a magic user? 13). He is a reality warper, according to Loki. Since that night, Billy's father never did. Soncesvit - Bulawa (Aerofoil Remix) 25:59 The Faino - Arkan That was in America (2017) which is what youre referring to. Youre really trying to use a brand new scan that hasnt been explained in a still unfinished story. The group travels to New York to discuss what they should do, but they are found by Ms. Altman, and defeated. The prophecies are ascribed not to the chief but to the other world-making angels. Here, at the summit of this system, the Source and Demiurge (material realm) coexist via the process of henosis. Reality Magic | Superpower Wiki | Fandom [44] According to one variant of the Valentinian system, the Demiurge is also the maker, out of the appropriate substance, of an order of spiritual beings, the devil, the prince of this world, and his angels. Plato, as the speaker Timaeus, refers to the Demiurge frequently in the Socratic dialogue Timaeus (28a ff. Thus their understanding of the Demiurge is similarly flawed in comparison to Platos original intentions. After three months in exile, Wiccan and the team are approached by the former X-Man and mutant Prodigy, who tells them that Speed, Wiccan's twin brother, was kidnapped by a mysterious figure wearing a Patriot uniform. Not to mention she proves that she can inhibit America's powers by dosing her with a counter serum. Demiurge Wiccan vs Unkindness Raven - Battles - Comic Vine The earliest Gnostic sects ascribe the work of creation to angels, some of them using the same passage in Genesis. 9). Fact is Demiurge Wiccan is actually barely universal, as we have seen him when controlled by a villain need like twenty years to destroy a single universe clearly not affecting anything across time or the like in the process. After discovering that Hulkling had been going out as a superhero without his knowledge, he and Wiccan fight over the choice to become superheroes again. The Superhero Database Classification number, or SHDB Class, is a number that represents the overall 'power' of a character. Dark Reign During the events of Dark Reign, Billy and the other. With that Osborn took his leave, and left the team alone. Sam Wilson and his newly Inverted Avengers shrunk all the gathered heroes down using Pym particles extracted from the Wasp (presumably against her will) and trapped them all in one of Hank Pym's microscopic ant farms, thereby taking care of the "liability". Gnosticism presents a distinction between the highest, unknowable God or Supreme Being and the demiurgic "creator" of the material, commonly identified as Yahweh, the God of the Hebrew Bible. Dice of the Skrull Kill Krew does the same and he is by all accounts not even particularly powerful. Not to mention we never get a reason why a chump like Loki would know this when all kinds of greater beings and entities appear to be unaware. The confrontation led to a battle between Kang and the Young Avengers. During their search, Wiccan and Speed openly referred to the Scarlet Witch as their mother and to one another as brothers. Gnosticism attributed falsehood or evil to the concept of the Demiurge or creator, though in some Gnostic traditions the creator is from a fallen, ignorant, or lesserrather than evilperspective, such as that of Valentinius. like very very gay Something being made from a gods breath is standard prose about creation. As "Asgardian" he limited his abilities to that of flight and lightning projection. He avoided Kessler at all costs until one day he saw Kessler had found a new victim. Read the scan I posted above. That night, however, the woman attacks Wiccan's parents. I get how powerful wiccan is i really do but LMAO WHAT THE HELL IS HOMEBOI DOING TO THE UNKINDNESS, @yungbaby: Shes the ultimate villain of the DC multiverse, it happened during the future state event. He briefly achieves this form, and is able to view the past, present and future, as well as freely alter the universe. Billy did not take Scarlet Witch's advice. @stahlflamme: is this demiurge( wiccan) isn't the same old demiurge? Not to mention the fact that he as the demiurge was drawn by America in said Made in a USA comic run before Catalina showed up. After a possessed Scarlet Witch and Doctor Doom cast the Inversion spell again, the "evil" heroes reverted to their heroic selves, and the trapped Avengers were freed. Character Billy Kaplan on Tumblr - #wiccan The bad guy possessing Wiccan needed around TWENTY YEARS to destroy ONE universe at which point he was stated to be at full power and it did not go through time or affect another universe, as the storyline had people go back in time to prevent it and it worked. Billy scoffed at her advice and told her maybe if he had powers like her he could. Plotinus also elucidates the equation of matter with nothing or non-being in The Enneads[9] which more correctly is to express the concept of idealism or that there is not anything or anywhere outside of the "mind" or nous (c.f. Wiccan is capable of a variety of feats, including, but not limited to: In House of M, Wanda recreated her sons William and Thomas as the younger members of the Magnus family. Demiurge. Completely knocks out the Wrecking Crew. And what else has the oh so overhyped Demiurge done? Lol @ universal demiurge wiccan. There are instances, however, where he doesn't need to chant to cast a spell. View full history. 2 yr. ago. The word demiurge is an English word derived from demiurgus, a Latinised form of the Greek or dmiurgs. WICCAN | Mighty Avengers The team defeat the creature, but Wiccan's spell is still in tact. A woman jogger passed by and asked him if he was okay because she saw the boy was bleeding. ). The Neoplatonic philosopher Plotinus addressed within his works Gnosticism's conception of the Demiurge, which he saw as un-Hellenic and blasphemous to the Demiurge or creator of Plato. He was angry here so there were no spell chants. During her marriage to the Vision, the Scarlet Witch used her reality-altering powers to create twin boys Willaim and . Emil Cioran also wrote his Le mauvais dmiurge ("The Evil Demiurge"), published in 1969, influenced by Gnosticism and Schopenhauerian interpretation of Platonic ontology, as well as that of Plotinus. The Wiccan and Hulkling of Earth-616 didn't approve of this, and later Wiccan and Hulkling from Earth-721 was sent home. (@ultraphoenix), https://twitter.com/spacekicker/status/1364588644032421889. He is an archon with the face of a lion, half flame, and half darkness. However, at this point in time, Wiccan doesn't have sufficient control over his powers to fully utilize the Demiurge's powers. In Middle Platonist and Numenius's Neo-Pythagorean cosmogenies, the Demiurge is second God as the nous or thought of intelligibles and sensibles[4] (Middle Platonism and Neo-Pythagoreanism overlapped: both originating in the early 1st century BC and extending through to the end of the 2nd century AD or even into the 3rd century). The Ophites held that he and his demons constantly oppose and thwart the human race, as it was on their account the devil was cast down into this world. @demiurgekaplan: multiversal demi urge has been debunked, https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/demiurge-wiccan-vs-hom-wanda-vs-white-phoenix-jean-2159484/. Outside, Magneto arrives, saying that he wants Billy help to locate his daughter. With a thought, he puts a group of bad guys in a coma. . This type of spellcasting has its flaws obviously. 'wisdom'), the Demiurge's mother and partial aspect of the divine Pleroma or "Fullness," desired to create something apart from the divine totality, without the receipt of divine assent. They are rescued by Noh-Varr and Kate Bishop, and the team flees to Central Park in order to avoid bringing too many people into the spell. Having no other choice, Wiccan and the team decide to leave New York. His origin make it possible that Wiccan is both a mage and mutant. This_Confused_Guy 1 yr. ago The only other thing he ever did was wipe out a dimensional parasite, that is at best as powerful as any other entity ruling their own dimension like Mephisto or the like, but likely considerable weaker. With the combined focus of Magneto and Speed, he was able to locate the Scarlet Witch, who was presumably dead. Is Wiccan THE Demiurge? : Marvel - reddit In one of the many dark possible futures shown to Immortus by The Time Keepers; William and Thomas had become tyrannical God-like superhumans who were seen launching a devastating assault on Eternity in an attempt to overthrow him. Magical Barrier - 9 AP Wiccan conjures up a magical barrier to protect his allies. 9). and apparently if he can't hear himself chanting the spell, it won't cast. The Young Avengers managed to escape to Billy's household. Criticism of the attempts to multiply the hypostasis, and especially of the idea of two intellects, one which thinks and that other which thinks that it thinks. He and Teddy decided to work with her, and took her out on a training mission against Hydra squadrons. He even held the comic panels in his hands and manipulated what was going to happen in then for gods sakes Im pretty sure he takes this. (sorry i'm clueless but if this was true wouldn't that make him like the most powerful person in the universe? He joined Ultron in attacking the Avengers. He seems to also ignore chanting spells when he's angry or extremely emotional. As the Demiurge, Billy is destined to "rewrite the laws of magic" in the universe, meaning that he is a being of power on a massive scale. For Billy to activate his reality-bending magic, He must focus on a desire or idea and vocalize, repeating quickly what he wants in order for a spell to be cast. He should win here. John Kessler was Billy's main nemesis and after receiving a beating that left him sore and bloody, Billy went to his favorite place to calm down -The Avengers Mansion. One night, Billy was angry at his father for no good reason, and yelled at him, telling him never to read to him again. His inclusion on the team allowed the future X-Men to gain mastery over both science and magic. The team travels to Europe to find her, but instead find a doombot posing as her. It was here that Billy revealed to Teddy that Norse myths have always had a special meaning for him because his father used to read them to him at night. Loki literally says "you're gonna rewrite the laws of magic across all realities". When Norman Osborn invaded Asgard with his army of superpowered beings and H.A.M.M.E.R. Wiccan, Speed, and Hulkling team up with Xavin and the Runaways to defeat the Super-Skrulls that are sent to assassinate Hulkling. Being raised in a normal home in New York with his loving mother, Rebecca Kaplan, father, Jeff Kaplan, and two brothers, Billy had the average problems for a gay teenager. In this act of separate creation, she gave birth to the monstrous Demiurge and, being ashamed of her deed, wrapped him in a cloud and created a throne for him within it. Quispel[who?] Depending on the system, they may be considered either uncreated and eternal or the product of some other entity. 1618).". Generally though, I'd agree with the take that trying to compare the power of two nebulously defined reality warpers is a bit silly. Someone on the team (which shall be referred to from hereon out as the Young Masters) contacted Norman Osborn, aka Iron Patriot - America's 'Top Cop' and the leader of H.A.M.M.E.R. 1). The box set would prove to be one of the last Marvel Legends products produced by ToyBiz before the Marvel license transferred to Hasbro. They were interrupted by a troupe of Kree soldiers who revealed Hulkling to be half-Kree as well and the son of their greatest warrior, Captain Marvel. Under the name of Nebro (rebel), Yaldabaoth is called an angel in the apocryphal Gospel of Judas. In Young Avengers vol. The Demiurge, isolated, did not behold his mother, nor anyone else, and concluded that only he existed, ignorant of the superior levels of reality. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Plato's work Timaeus is a philosophical reconciliation of Hesiod's cosmology in his Theogony, syncretically reconciling Hesiod to Homer.[1][2][3]. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/raven-the-unkindness-respect-thread-2156619/, There's more too by the way I have not 100% updates that thread, Demiurge Wiccan is above time and reality, and the multiverse. The law of necessary procession and the eternity of the universe (ch.3). Wiccan and the others were eventually rescued by their teammates and continued avoiding registration. 2, it is revealed by Loki that Wiccan is destined to ascend to a god-like reality warper who will rewrite the rules of magic known as the Demiurge. Wiccan and the other imprisoned anti-registration heroes were later freed by Hulkling who disguised himself as Hank Pym to infiltrate the N-Zone prison. Loki tells them that they need his help in order to destroy the parasite, and they agree. A bit desperate too. A partially powered Demiurge (aka the Semiurge) holds off Mother's attacks Fully turns into the Demiurge through the power of love As the full-powered Demiurge, he casually removes Mother from existence, who is an extremely powerful matter manipulator, and removes everyone from the pocket dimension into the main universe. This being is considered not only blind, or ignorant of its own origins, but may, in addition, be evil; its name is also found in Judaism as the Angel of Death and in Christian demonology. @j2111: @imquentin: And since all those nonsensical statements we've seen this lame deus ex machina in actual effect in New Avengers. 15). He apparently could not save it from breaking apart without some ladies croaking so how powerful does that make him? And how many more times to I have to tell you the visual depiction of interacting with comic panels does not matter? Billy's issues escalated as he grew older and entered high school where his differences became the source of endless torment and violence. The two work out their problems, and their love is able to save the universe. The battle culminated with Iron Lad killing Kang which altered the past and present. In the Nag Hammadi text On the Origin of the World, the three sons of Yaldabaoth are listed as Yao, Eloai, and Astaphaios.[31]. Wiccan (real name William "Billy" Kaplan) is a comic book character, a member of the Young Avengers, a team of teenage superheroes in the Marvel Universe. [32][33], "Samael" literally means "Blind God" or "God of the Blind" in Hebrew (.mw-parser-output .script-hebrew,.mw-parser-output .script-Hebr{font-family:"SBL Hebrew","SBL BibLit","Taamey Ashkenaz","Taamey Frank CLM","Frank Ruehl CLM","Ezra SIL","Ezra SIL SR","Keter Aram Tsova","Taamey David CLM","Keter YG","Shofar","David CLM","Hadasim CLM","Simple CLM","Nachlieli",Cardo,Alef,"Noto Serif Hebrew","Noto Sans Hebrew","David Libre",David,"Times New Roman",Gisha,Arial,FreeSerif,FreeSans}). Billy joins him at his side, and they play a part in stopping a Cotati invasion of Earth. That arc was about him being possessed by octopus-cthulu, who basically broke . Probably Raven if she is anything like what people pretend Demiurge Wiccan is. ), c.360 BC. Wanda vs Wiccan powers comparison question : r/Marvel - reddit His powers thus far have manifested on a localized scale in a variety of ways through the upper limit of his powers has yet to be seen. To this Messiah, however, was actually united with Jesus the Saviour, Who redeemed men. . Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Young Avengers agreed that in order for reality to stabilize, Iron Lad must return to his own time. Hence that did contradict it. Wiccan ( William " Billy " Kaplan-Altman [1]) is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The majority of scholars tend[51] to understand Plotinus' opponents as being a Gnostic sectcertainly (specifically Sethian), several such groups were present in Alexandria and elsewhere about the Mediterranean during Plotinus' lifetime. John D. Turner, professor of religious studies at the University of Nebraska, and famed translator and editor of the Nag Hammadi library, stated[55] that the text Plotinus and his students read was Sethian Gnosticism, which predates Christianity. It has been demonstrated that without the ability to hear his own words, the spell cannot be cast, though other uses of his powers have been done seemingly effortlessly and without words. The true doctrine about Universal Soul and the goodness of the universe which it forms and rules (chs. But what he (demiurge) showed or said is less than what raven did in the future state (destroyed: the new genesis, speed force wall, hell). Wiccan discovered that he and the newest recruit, a youth with super speed by the name of Tommy Shepard, were identical in appearance. William was believed to be Malachi, who attacked the Avengers during the Crossing story arc. In that series, Wanda and Vision conceive twin sons. As a Kree, Hulkling was to be enlisted in the Kree army, by force if necessary. After these events, Captain America ordered the Young Avengers to disband. For relatively simple spells, such as his shields, lightning, and conjuring, he doesn't chant the spell (on panel at least). As the full-powered Demiurge, he casually removes Mother from existence, who is an extremely powerful matter manipulator, and removes everyone from the pocket dimension into the main universe. The Demiurge will rewrite the rules of magic and all the implications of that decision will echo forward and backward across all realities. forces, the heroes of Earth went to its rescue. hansfenton123 The impossible son of a witch and a synthezoid, Billy Kaplan was always going to be powerful, but Young Avengers - from writer Kieron Gillen and mainstay artist Jamie Mckelvie - revealed that Wiccan is actually the Demiurge, a force of life and magic who, when he comes of age, will redefine the rules of magic and become functionally omnipotent. However instead of recreating them as her children, they ended up as the children of other parents. In this one-shot about the final adventure of the Avengers, Billy Maximoff chose to be a villain, calling himself the Grim Reaper. He also has power over all realities and all possible worlds. As Wiccan, he joined the Young Avengers and learned he was the reincarnated son of Scarlet Witch and Vision. The character has been depicted as a member of the Young Avengers, a team of teenage superheroes, as well as the Champions. 2. Demiurge Wiccan has more impressive feats. Billy explained to the woman what had happened and was shocked to see the woman was none other than Scarlet Witch. In order to reconcile Aristotelian with Platonian philosophy,[5] Plotinus metaphorically identified the demiurge (or nous) within the pantheon of the Greek Gods as Zeus.[6]. 257, 382). Soon, almost all the young heroes of Earth-616 are assembled to battle Mother's army. At the consummation of all things, all light will return to the Pleroma. As long as they are near their parents or the location of their parent's deaths, they will be in danger. All traits of a character are used for calculating the Classification. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll So youre attempts to try and debunk his multiversal status arent gonna work. @killianduclark: Thats not even remotely debunking anything. While being attacked, Billy's powers manifested for the first time. Billy gave up his superhero career, being mostly grounded by his parents who urged him to register. The blasphemous falsity of the Gnostic claim to control the higher powers by magic and the absurdity of their claim to cure diseases by casting out demons (ch. Evangeliou, "Plotinus's Anti-Gnostic Polemic and Porphyry's Against the Christians", in Wallis & Bregman, From "Introduction to Against the Gnostics", Plotinus', Armstrong, pp. [13] @demiurgekaplan: the entirety of multiversal demi urges feats come from statements about creating the utopia parallel. He has received two figures to date, one of which depicted his most well known costume, and the other of which depicted his original Asgardian outfit. She reassured him that "Everyone has some gift," and advised him that next time he encounter Kessler, not to back down. After a brief engagement, the Dark Avengers and the Masters were all but defeated. He is blind to all that is spiritual, but he is king over the other two provinces. Instead, the Young Avengers continued to function as a team, now using Kate Bishop's resources to support them. At the close of the series, Billy and Tommy are seemingly cease to exist after Wanda undoes her spell and frees Westview from her control, but the post-credits scene has Wanda hearing the boys calling to her, implying they somehow survived. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6Y934v-iG3NRpVANkwhqbJlExL9r9BuVDNqdz2XRNSEnmIMffLzVNOolz-NaFFXB9FKrzqUThvKZK_DX_eR5-74KBCLwCD8WVZWNPL3NGgba1NKocwdrWzk-kHtsYnxisKM_Zkg06Q=s1600. And as I said before get over the visual depiction we've seen Dice(Skrull Kill Krew) interact with them and he is not even as powerful as standard Wiccan. Until that happens youre argument isnt gonna work its just loud at the point. Billy and Teddy had been helping out when they came across an Asgardian temple being desecrated and pillaged by the Wrecking Crew. In the report of the system of Basilides,[23] we are told that our world was made by the angels who occupy the lowest heaven; but special mention is made of their chief, who is said to have been the God of the Jews, to have led that people out of the land of Egypt, and to have given them their law. The figure of the Demiurge emerges in the theoretic of Iamblichus, which conjoins the transcendent, incommunicable One, or Source. The Young Avengers later encountered both Kate Bishop and the daughter of the late Ant Man (Scott Lang), Cassie Lang. Here he uses an offensive spell but he doesn't repeat the spell. [18] So Irenaeus tells[19] of the system of Simon Magus,[20] of the system of Menander,[21] of the system of Saturninus, in which the number of these angels is reckoned as seven, and[22] of the system of Carpocrates. (ch. The latest Tweets from Billy Kaplan (@Wiccan_Demiurge). When Hulkling is hurt during the battle, Billy uses his powers to put the Sons into comas. Wiccan appears in 645 issues. I don't know why people saying he is multiversel, etc. Especially considering said story isnt even completed and is still running so whos to say Catalina is lying? Last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49, introducing citations to additional sources, Learn how and when to remove this template message, Against the Gnostics; or, Against Those that Affirm the Creator of the Cosmos and the Cosmos Itself to be Evil, International Society for Neoplatonic Studies, Dark Mirrors of Heaven: Gnostic Cosmogony, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demiurge&oldid=1141744969, This page was last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49. After a dangerous and adventure-filled trip through the multiverse, the team ventures to Mother's dimension to rescue Teddy. While patterning himself after Thor in the guise of Asgardian, Billy limited himself entirely to flight and lightning based spells. (Kick Duck Dancing) 16:52 GG - Petrivka 19:49 Daniel Christian ft. Kolly Dee - Slava Ukraine 23:19 Andrew StetS feat. writes, "There is a direct link between ancient Gnosticism and Catharism. Issues 1 ,2,3 completely null youre incredibly wrong and incorrect statement. The ending panel for issue 3 is, Chavez "sister" revealing more people like her and America created by replicating America's mom's experiments. Like many other heroes, Wiccan and the Young Avengers were granted amnesty following the conclusion of Civil War. [49] In the ninth tractate of the second of his Enneads, Plotinus criticizes his opponents for their appropriation of ideas from Plato: From Plato come their punishments, their rivers of the underworld and the changing from body to body; as for the plurality they assert in the Intellectual Realmthe Authentic Existent, the Intellectual-Principle, the Second Creator and the Soulall this is taken over from the Timaeus. Hes even been mentioned in Strikeforce another recent comic book run with Wiccan himself. Hippolytus claims that Simon used a similar description.[30]. Billy Kaplan on Tumblr You then who are spiritual should worship neither the creation nor the Craftsman, but the Father of Truth. There is nothing that suggests that he is universal. Demiurge, under Mor-I-Dun's control, attacked the Avengers and his husband, King Hulk . However, the Super-Skrull tracked them down, revealing Hulkling's mother to be a Skrull (who was charged to raise him on Earth by Hulkling's birth mother, the deceased Skrull Empress Anelle). Lol @ "universal" demiurge wiccan. Thats a cute post though. Billy met Iron Lad at the Avengers Mansion while seeking Scarlet Witch. When it is employed by other Gnostics either it is not used in a technical sense, or its use has been borrowed from Valentinus. He is currently engaged to Teddy Altman, aka Hulkling. Unhappy about this, Billy uses a location spell to find the team, and the real Young Avengers confront the false ones. So destroying a universe is his best actual feat not his worst. Teleports an entire prisoner van to a secure SHIELD location. Wiccan (Billy Kaplan) 4-Star Rarity (Legendary) Heroes, Young Avengers, Team Cap. The devil resides in this lower world, of which he is the prince, the Demiurge in the heavens; his mother Sophia in the middle region, above the heavens and below the Pleroma.[45]. The true believer in Christ entered into God's kingdom, the unbeliever remained forever the slave of the Demiurge.[28]. What Was Marvel's Mother - and How Did It Nearly Destroy the - CBR What's more likely is that you are in deniable. It's existence has been retconned hence he has no such feats. The work of Plotinus and other later Platonists in the 3rd century AD to further clarify the Demiurge is known as Neoplatonism. That retcon your speaking of had nothing to do with the utopian parallel but about how the GROUP OF SUPERPOWERED WOMEN (not the place itself) it came to be, I.e instead of Americas people being made by the demiurge they were recton to instead be asylum seekers after theyre own home (Planeta Fuertona) was destroyed by La Lgion.

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