3:1-2) is saying that their are parts of the Word that are more elementary than others, not that those parts are any less important. A hearty AMEN numo. If the person makes the comment because he/she believes its important that others should know that there are people who can be hurt by that conversation in real life, how should that affect the online discussion? 2) Dee, all this proves is you are a weirdness magnet. Because their first and most precious assumption is that truth is forever beyond any human agency. Julie Anne: They want pure milk easy to digest, soothing, warms their tummy, meets their needs, gives comfort, nourishes them and helps them grow. And later, mamas milkexactly what they need at the precise time they need it., Nick: Some, myself included, who spent years in controlling and abusive churches would say that to be infantilised is the last thing we need.. God ordains everything and man has a degree of free will how can these both be true? (Mark 12:28-34, ESV). @ dee: Hey, my Lutheran background is a lot of things, but Calvinist it aint! circles, and here are the things that were primary messages: 1) God predestines some for salvation, and some for hell. As Ive said, Id prefer not to discuss Calvinism at all. If I were there when a Calvinist or any other professing believer (or atheist or whatever) told someone who was suffering or grieving something that was sure to make the person feel worse, I can practically guarantee that I would shut that person up and have words with him/her. And so, I also agree with Nick on this: To me, being fed pat answers is more analogous to being fed sawdust because fibre is good for you.. This, of course, is totally irrelevant. The guy in the video I linked to above (or the host of the channel, I forget which after I watched the first video, I watched about five more by the bearded guy who owns the channel) mentioned WCF, too, and pointed out what he considered to be flaws with WCFs statements, which he seemed to think are in agreement with some Calvinistic views about God decreeing stuff/ predestination. Apparently Imade some remark that all infants who die go to heaven. C.K. Bummer. In spite of the fact that Sproul and Piper have said such things, i still consider them Christians. My experience has been that someone who adheres to Calvinism always shows up on a blog to defend it/him when they happen upon someone they feel is misrepresenting him/it. And if we go to ourselves, were going to get something like what elastigirl wrote above. @ Daisy: 1554-1612), who was trained in theology in a university (Cambridge), and Thomas Helwys (ca. My hubby got his first spiritual stirrings while watching a live performance of, Jesus Christ Superstar. 1 Systematic Theology Berkhof, Louis (Author) English (Publication Language) Deny their premises, no matter how altruistic they may sound. #7 Scott J, Jan 10, 2006 You have nothing to do with it. I used try but I have given up. To help clarify this, theologians for centuries have distinguished between primary and secondary causality. Also, I use calvinist interchangeably with TULIP believer. Due to the successful ministries of dynamic authors, preachers and speakers such as Louie Giglio, John Piper, Mark Driscoll, Kevin DeYoung and Josh Harris, Calvinist/Reformed theology is ranked, according to Time magazine, 3rd on the list of Top 10 Ideas that are Changing the World Right Now . I let the philosophers consider those questions. How to Resign from a Church I dont have experience of dealing with, or helping someone else deal with, child sex abuse; and of course I dont have experience of being someone else. Might we call what youre describing love? Both groups will say you dont understand their views/religion, or they say you are misrepresenting them (even if you really are not and have read lots of books by ex, or current, members of their groups who explain what the group believes). The people you refer to are not hard-bitten Marxists or Dawkinsists; they ardently profess Christian faith and judge you in Jesus own name. B. What I am saying is that there is such a thing as finding joy in salvation, thanking God for His grace, but accepting that there is peace to be found in paradoxes. G. Campbell Morgan 16. NOT throwing out common sense and reasoning, but understanding that there are limitations to this. You see, dedicated, intelligent theologianshave gone down this road for centuries and still disagree with one another. An Introduction To Calvinism & Arminianism | Tim Challies At least in Christianity, we have a God who did not allow us to suffer alone, but participated in experiencing the effects of evil. We are not monolithic. If you define Calvinism that way, then I am certainly not a Calvinist, but neither is my church, the PCA, nor even was Calvin himself. The 5 pillars of calvinism are not found in these creeds. Considering the amount of people we are seeing who have had these experiences, I wish the accusations about misrepresenting the Reformed/Calvin/Tulip systems would take a back seat. Granted, some assume Total Depravity to mean human beings to be totally depraved. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. I dont have an answer, but I dont like the other alternatives either (that God doesnt exist, is not all powerful, or is evil). Witherington and Lenski are not Calvinists, but they're not Arminians, either. This short paper contains a list of common-sense and biblical arguments and counter-arguments against Calvinism and predestination. The idea that we are mindless automatons going through Gods motions is not what Calvinists, now or historically, have ever believed. John Piper (46:41) "This is the one you're all waiting for," Dever quips. Bad theology dishonors God and hurts people. Famous Calvinists - Coming In The Clouds for what its worth, im the product of many generations of energetic, committed Christian people, several career missionaries to asia, and church since day 1. Lydia's Corner:Ezra 3:1-4:231 Corinthians 2:6-3:4Psalm 28:1-9Proverbs 20:24-25, Thank you so much for this posting. "I want to have a discussion with you. ISTM, that the fundamental issue in abuse is betrayal. I find it troubling too. Those wishes are not uncommon. One of the problems in these conversatiosn is that some Calvinists will say, Cal does not teach X!, and maybe it does not(? Theyre like rival sects of Muslims in Iraq & Syria. And thanks for your honest answers. Question: @netgrace was involved with Vineyard Duluth and did a great job. Instead of debating, try to learn from the other person. Rank No. If God had not give Adam and Eve a test and just stuck them there in the Garden with no choices, or had God forced them to be good, that itself is not an act of good, and God would have had two robots on his hands. I witnessed a weird detachment with this thinking, and people almost having to downplay love or relationship with others. I notedthat this man often appeared angry to me and blew him off, deciding he was dealing with something in his life. And its not because we cant or are unwilling (as in errant school children who just need some tutoring) to accept, Gods ways to be different from ours.. So MY goals when I talk about Calvinism here on the forum are to a) clear up misconceptions that would cause people to unnecessarily reject the theology so that they can know for real what it is they are rejecting. I worked in a womens shelter and was surprised at the number of pastors wives (well-known ones, too) who were regulars in the shelter. So, when some folksfinally get into a Calvinist church that teaches sound doctrine, they believe that they have found a system that has answers for many questions that had troubled them. It is not love to push Calvin. Nope. Advocate & Solicitor of the High Court of Malaya. What about what God foreordained someone else to say that is different. He also read the Gospel of John for the first time, (it was given to him), while smoking pot. Wow! Declarations of faith. I didn't know what I should read first as I attempted to learn more. Sproul Steve Lawson Voddie Bachham Wayne Grudem People Guilty Of Greatly Spreading The False "Free Will" Gospel: Bill Bright Billy Graham Charles Finney When people have been hurt by something they have come to realize was wrong, they will present their disagreements with fervor. I read CS Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and many others. Like you, I only care about what scripture says. I just ordered the book! Does that make me not a Calvinist? Breathes words of consolation deep inside you. Thanks for the clarification. Why isnt it simple, like the works of John Owen and Jonathan Edwards? This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. I think that desiring a nice complete and in itself non-contradictory theological system is our undoing. A person who is happy (if that word lacks depth for anyone, you could substitute hopeful, optimistic, joyful, grateful) can affect others with it, 3 generations worth (ie- someone with happiness holds a door for someone carrying a heavy load, that person is then affected positively and they in turn affect someone else with their bolstered happiness). Hes already won me to his side. But I could not have thrown it were it not for my moment-by-moment dependence on the being and power of God. That has been my experience in dealing with Calvinists online, or lurking at their forums or blogs, yes. Ill have to look that one up. *If we disagree, let us disagree on what we see in Scripture, not on our own sense of right and wrong. These accusations are often followed by the fact that although they cant explain away the opposing verses, nonetheless they know their view is the truth. To insist on it is to cling to an inadequate, incorrect understanding of God, IMO. My experience has been that someone who adheres to Calvinism always shows up on a blog to defend it/him when they happen upon someone they feel is misrepresenting him/it. For a son to commit suicide? My jaw dropped open when I read the first paragraph of your post. And requires even more general kindness and that continued diet in that warm kitchen. In fact, I doubt any of the Cavlinistas would even agree with that thought process. But I do believe in TULIP and the majority of the WCF- what label should I use to communicate that when people are interested? (But I always wondered why, if it was not His desire that any man should perish, that He also would create someone specifically for hell??). Why is Calvin even part of the discussion, period? As for being Lutheran, I think people get this confused sometimes as if all Lutherans follow everything Luther wrote. I met my husband when he wandered over to Park Street after he attended a service at Tremont Temple. I am a non-Calvinist (not quite an Arminian either) who lives and moves and has my being amongst Calvinists, the overwhelmingly dominant brand in my neck of the woods. I just checked my Google News and there was an Associated Press story marking 20 years since Al Mohler took over SBTS. List of famous Calvinist theologians : r/Reformed - reddit

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